Discourse 15 - Who is the "bride of the Lamb"?




Is the Rapture of the congregation contained in Rev 12,5? / Book - W. J. Ouweneel 00, page 327

Was the "marriage" already solemnized on the day of Pentecost? / Book - W. J. Ouweneel 01, page 452

Can Christ and the congregation become one flesh? / Reply Ferdinand Georg 00, 2003-02-25

Has Paul betrothed the congregation to Christ in 2Cor 11,2? / Reply Ferdinand Georg 01, 2003-02-26

Was Paul less enlightened on the subject of the "bride of Christ"? / Reply Ferdinand Georg 02, 2003-02-27

Jerusalem, the Bride of the Lamb. / Reply Franz Murauer 00, 2004-02-01

Ode to the congregation. / Reply Andre Aubert 00, 2004-02-18


(Texts enclosed in a black frame are quoted from visitors to the site or other authors.)

(Is the Rapture of the congregation contained in Rev 12,5? / Book WJO00, page 327 +))

Some commentators incline to the view that the Rapture of the congregation is contained in the Rapture of the Messiah as described in Rev 12,5. In 1The 4,17 we find indeed the very same word, "caught up" or "translated"; and the Rapture of the congregation is indeed similar to that of the Lord Jesus. This is because we are connected with the Lord who sits enthroned. In Rev 4 the 24 elders are grouped around the throne. When it is said of the Lord that he will rule the nations with a rod of iron (Rev 12,5, 19,15), this is only a confirmation of what we are told in Rev 2,27 with reference to the faithful. The congregation is admittedly not directly visible here, but it is very closely connected with the "male" child. In the most extended sense this image embraces both the Son of Man and the congregation, seeing that we are completely one with him. He is the head and we are the body; head and body together make up "the Christ" (1Cor 12,12).

+) This extract is taken from the book "Das Buch der Offenbarung" ["The Book of Revelation"] by W. J. Ouweneel, Christliche Literatur-Verbreitung e. V. [Society for the Dissemination of Christian Literature].

(W. J. Ouweneel, Das Buch der Offenbarung [The Book of Revelation], CLV)



We must express our full and unreserved agreement with what is said here. The scriptural passages referred to also confirm the author's statement:

All the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ.

1Cor 12,12 For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 1Cor 12,12;

The Father gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body.

Eph 1,22 And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, 1,23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all. Eph 1,22-23;


As the author very accurately puts it in the passage above, “He is the head and we are the body; head and body together make up the Christ”.

We learn from Paul that our destiny as a congregation is similar to that of the Lord Jesus, and that not just in connection with the Rapture:

Certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection.

Rom 6,5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, Rom 6, 5;

(See also Chapter 12:  “The resurrection.”)


The Lord will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory.

Phil 3,20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 3,21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself. Phil 3,20-21;

(See also Excursus 07: “The resurrection body.”)


If then we can assume that we, the congregation, even in our lifetimes (though still more so after the Resurrection and the Rapture), are one body with Christ, he being the head and we the limbs, this must also entail that we will live with him and experience his presence. And Scripture confirms this as well when we are told (as was mentioned earlier) of “him who overcomes” in Rev 2,27, just as we are told of the Lord in Rev 12,5, that “he shall rule them with a rod of iron”. Paul tells us in 1Cor 6,2 that the saints will judge the world, like the Lord Jesus. And finally the Lord himself tells us in Rev 3,21:

He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne.

Rev 3,21 He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. Rev 3,21;


So we will actually get to sit with him on his throne. And this is indeed only possible if we are also one “body” with him. And the body and the head together make up “the Christ”, as the author puts it in the above passage.

In commenting on the “marriage of the Lamb” in Rev 19, however, the author of the book mentioned above comes to the following conclusion:


(Texts enclosed in a black frame are quoted from visitors to the site or other authors.)

(Was the “marriage” already solemnized on the day of Pentecost? / Book WJO01, page 452)

The gamos (the marriage feast) takes place in Rev 19, but this word does not tell us very much about the actual solemnization of the marriage. In actual fact the marriage was already formally solemnized when the congregation came into being on the day of Pentecost, and it is practically consummated with the Rapture of the congregation. From Rev 4 on, the congregation is the wife of the Lamb;

(W. J. Ouweneel, Das Buch der Offenbarung [The Book of Revelation], CLV)



To enable us to get a better overview, here is the complete text:

The marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.

Rev 19,6 Then I heard something like the voice of a great multitude and like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying, “Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns. 19,7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” Rev 19, 6- 7;


No one will contest the assertion that in the marriage of the Lamb the term “Lamb” stands for the Lord Jesus. If we now - as the author does in the above passage - interpret the woman, that is, the bride and wife of the Lamb as the congregation, then in the light of the argument rehearsed earlier we are faced with an identification problem. Because if the congregation is the body, and so too an actual physical component of the Lord, it cannot be at the same time the bride of the Lamb, that is to say, his wife. We, as the congregation cannot be both bride and bridegroom at once. 

But this is not the only mistaken interpretation of this kind. We, as the congregation, are behaving more and more like a Moloch who refers all promises of salvation to himself exclusively. Many of the promises which were made to Israel, for instance, are referred to the congregation free of charge by uncritical commentators. It begins with the congregation being seen as the woman in heaven of Rev 12,1-17, but then it is identified with the twenty-four elders of Rev 4,10 as well (Ouweneel), with the 144,000 who have been sealed of Rev 7,1-8 (and that in spite of the fact that they are explicitly described as Israelites!), with the great multitude of Rev 7,9-17, and it reaches such a pitch that in denial of all logic the congregation is seen by some commentators both as the bride and as the bridegroom. So it is not surprising if among some brethren, in view of this omnipresence of the congregation, a certain elitist conceit becomes apparent. We should therefore take the counsel of the Lord all the more to heart, when he recommends to us (in Mt 18,1-5) precisely the opposite course.

Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Mt 18,1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 18,2 And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, 18,3 and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. 18,4 Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 18,5 And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me;” Mt 18, 1- 5;


An attempt to analyze the question of the identity of the “bride of the Lamb” in detail may be found in Chapter 06, “The return of the Lord”.

(See also Chapter 063: The return of the Lord - part 3: “The marriage of the Lamb.”)



(Texts enclosed in a black frame are quoted from visitors to the site or other authors.)

(Can Christ and the congregation become one flesh? / Repl FG00, 2003-02-25)

Your page is very profound and gave me much information about several subjects I have up to now interpreted in a more “orthodox” way. I am surprised though that the subject “bride of Christ - the congregation” is treated in rather reticent terms. For example Eph 5,25-27 is not mentioned in this connection although here the congregation is compared with a wife.

(Ferdinand Georg, ferdinand.g@gmx.net )


““

The subject “Bride of Christ - the congregation” is not just treated in rather reticent terms - as you put it. Actually it is altogether called in question.

Paul does indeed compare in the passage you quote (Eph 5,26-27) the congregation with a woman and bids us to love our wives as Christ loved the congregation. Four verses later Paul in Eph 5,31-32 becomes still more distinct. Here he says:

Eph 5,31 For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife. And the two shall become one flesh. 5,32 This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. Eph 5,31-32;


And he refers to Gen 2,24 and Mt 19,5 which also speak about man and wife. But it is evident, that Christ and the congregation cannot become one flesh. What Paul says in this verse is something else: he says “But I am saying that it refers to Christ and the congregation”. So, this is an interpretation on Paul's part.

When we now look at Hosea 2,16-23 we find the real and true bride of the Lord. Here God the Almighty says to the people of Israel (in the Last Days):

I will betroth you to Me forever; Yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness and in justice, In lovingkindness and in compassion.

Hos 2,16 "It will come about in that day," declares the LORD, "That you will call Me Ishi (my husband)! And will no longer call Me Baali. 2,17 "For I will remove the names of the Baals from her mouth, So that they will be mentioned by their names no more.

2,18 "In that day I will also make a covenant for them With the beasts of the field, The birds of the sky And the creeping things of the ground. And I will abolish the bow, the sword and war from the land, And will make them lie down in safety. 2,19 "I will betroth you to Me forever; Yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness and in justice, In lovingkindness and in compassion, 2,20 And I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness. Then you will know the LORD. Hos 2,16-20


This “day” of which the Lord is speaking in the above passage (Hos 2,16) is the day of the gathering and conversion of Israel before the Millennium of their Messiah, our Lord Jesus Christ.

And following these statements, the Lord, our and their God, confirms to the people of Israel the entire blessings for the earth in those thousand years which he always had promised them through his servants, the prophets:

I will respond to the heavens, and they will respond to the earth and the earth will respond to the grain, to the new wine and to the oil, And they will respond to Jezreel.

Hos 2,21 "It will come about in that day that I will respond," declares the LORD. "I will respond to the heavens, and they will respond to the earth, 2,22 And the earth will respond to the grain, to the new wine and to the oil, And they will respond to Jezreel. 2,23 "I will sow her for Myself in the land. I will also have compassion on her who had not obtained compassion, And I will say to those who were not My people, ‘You are My people!’ And they will say, ‘You are my God!’" Hos 2,21-23;


When thus the Lord Himself says that for eternity he will betroth himself to Israel, in my opinion there is no room for another “bride”. What God is promising, he surely will fulfill. As our Lord Jesus already says:

Until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Mt 5,18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Mt 5,18;


Together with all other scriptural references cited at Immanuel.at (for instance Mt 22,1-14) one has to start from the fact that we as the congregation are the “wedding guests” but not the “bride”. Looking at the relevant texts we can see that the “bride” was never changed for another - even if she fornicated and abandoned her God. Only the wedding guests have changed. In the end the Lord will forgive Israel’s fornication, and she will call Him “Ishi - my husband and will no longer call Him Baali” (Hos 2,16). (See also Ezk 16).

We should not envy Israel since the congregation still will have the privilege of being first with the Lord, while Israel has to wait thousand years more.

(See also Discourse 38: “What awaits Christians and Jews on the Second Coming of the Lord?”)

I know here that I am likely to meet with resistance, not to say reluctance, in many parish churches. It is certainly not decisive for the issue of salvation what view a person takes of these matters, even if in the last 200-300 years the congregation has assimilated more and more of those promises which originally were directed exclusively to the people of Israel - until we find it asserted that Israel is totally excluded from salvation and the congregation is to be seen as the “true Israel”. A thorough grounding in Scripture does not enable us to come to such a conclusion.



(Texts enclosed in a black frame are quoted from visitors to the site or other authors.)

(Has Paul betrothed the congregation to Christ in 2Cor 11,2? / Reply FG 01, 2003-02-26)

Your explanation of Eph 5,25-27 is convincing. Certainly this is not a definition of the congregation being the bride of Christ which in principle I do not defend either. I am only in the process of examining whether it is indeed as you say, because in the past I have been advised differently. So allow me one more question: How is 2Cor 11,2 to be seen in this connection (For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to Christ.)?

(Ferdinand Georg ferdinand.g@gmx.net)



Well, precisely this is the point which is generally mentioned in this connection and you are perfectly right to discuss it here. The exact wording of the passage is as follows (NAS95):

For I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.

2Cor 11,2 For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin. 2Cor 11, 2;


Most of the comments in Scriptures and concordances refer here to parallel passages in Hos 2,19-20 (see above) and Rev 14,4 which for the sake of completeness should also be quoted here:

I will betroth you to Me forever; Yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness.

Hos 2,19 "I will betroth you to Me forever; Yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness and in justice, In lovingkindness and in compassion, 2,20 And I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness. Then you will know the LORD. Hos 2,19-20

These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste.

Rev 14,1 Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads. 14,2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder, and the voice which I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps. 14,3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth. 14,4 These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. 14,5 And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless. Rev 14, 1- 5;


The indication contained in these parallel passages is indeed justified, since these texts (Hos 2,19-20 and Rev 14,4 as well as Eph 5,25-27 and 2Cor 11,2) are definitely those parts of the Scriptures which can give the most unequivocal indication as to the identity of the “Bride of the Lamb”.

Nevertheless, it is always overlooked that Hos 2 as well as Rev 14,1-5 and. Rev 7,1-8 speak about the Israelites, not about the Christian congregation. In Hosea, in the first case, it is Lo-Ammi - the people of Israel (see above) - and in Revelation the 144.000 sealed (12.000 from every one of the 12 tribes of Israel) are presented to us “as the first fruits to the God and the Lamb”.

One hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel.

Rev 7,1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree.

7,2 And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 7,3 saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads."

7,4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: 7,5 From the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, 7,6 from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, 7,7 from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, 7,8 from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed. Rev 7, 1- 8;


And it is the latter who indeed seem to me to be the “Bride of the Lamb”. The attributes

-  they have not been defiled with woman

-  they are chaste

-  they are the first fruits to God and the Lamb

-  they have been purchased from among men

-  no lie was found in their mouth

-  they are blameless


can only be referred with extreme presumption to the congregation of all times. And that is leaving out of account the fact that these 144,000 Israelites will only live at the end of time, as Rev 7,3 confirms:

“Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads!“


This destruction of the sea and the trees which will set in after the sealing of the 144,000 Israelites consists in the plagues of the trumpets. But at the same time, during these plagues the 144.000 will stay on earth. From Rev 9,4 we know that exactly these sealed ones have to be saved from the plagues of the fifth trumpet.

They were told to hurt only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

Rev 9,3 Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 9,4 They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

9,5 And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man. 9,6 And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will long to die, and death flees from them. Rev 9, 3- 6;


It follows, then, that these 144,000 with the seal of God on their foreheads will live only in the Last Days - and not before.

Repeated endeavors have been made to present the congregation as the “true Israel” and to interpret the 144,000 as a “big symbolic figure” for the congregation of all time. Here it would be very helpful if advocates of this point of view, as well as all members of the congregation worldwide, were to ask themselves to what extent they comply with the above requirements (chaste virgin, chaste, not untrue, blameless etc.).

With reference to Paul’s statement in 2Cor 11,2, it is worth pointing out that it is very likely that he had no knowledge of the revelation of our Lord Jesus to John or of its contents.



(Texts enclosed in a black frame are quoted from visitors to the site or other authors.)

(Was Paul less enlightened on the subject “Bride of Christ”? / Reply FG 02, 2003-02-27)

Your interpretation of Christ’s bride as the 144,000 sealed is conclusive. Nonetheless I still have no better understanding of Paul’s statement in 2Cor 11,2. I felt irritated by your sentence: “With reference to Paul’s statement in 2Cor 11,2, it is worth pointing out that it is very likely that he had no knowledge of the revelation of our Lord Jesus to John.” This sounds as if Paul was less than enlightened in this respect, and thus mistakenly gave the Corinthians the illusion of their being betrothed to Christ.

(Ferdinand Georg ferdinand.g@gmx.net)



We cannot suppose that God Almighty himself had less enlightenment on the subject of the “Bride of Christ”, and so in Hos 2,19-20 had given the Israelites the fictitious illusion of their being betrothed to Him:

I will betroth you to Me forever; Yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness.

Hos 2,19 "I will betroth you to Me forever; Yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness and in justice, In lovingkindness and in compassion, 2,20 And I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness. Then you will know the LORD. Hos 2,19-20


This relationship of our God with his people of Israel is a promise which cannot be annulled by human beings, nor by ignorance or well-intentioned explanations or even blind jealousy. Besides the above text from Hosea 2,16-23, we have more passages which confirm this fact:

And as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, So your God will rejoice over you.

Isa 62,1 For Zion’s sake I will not keep silent, And for Jerusalem’s sake I will not keep quiet, Until her righteousness goes forth like brightness, And her salvation like a torch that is burning. 62,2 The nations will see your righteousness, And all kings your glory; And you will be called by a new name Which the mouth of the LORD will designate. 62,3 You will also be a crown of beauty in the hand of the LORD, And a royal diadem in the hand of your God. 62,4 It will no longer be said to you, "Forsaken," Nor to your land will it any longer be said, "Desolate"; But you will be called, "My delight is in her," And your land, "Married"; For the LORD delights in you, And to Him your land will be married. 62,5 For as a young man marries a virgin, So your sons will marry you; And as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, So your God will rejoice over you. 62,6 On your walls, O Jerusalem, I have appointed watchmen; All day and all night they will never keep silent. You who remind the LORD, take no rest for yourselves; 62,7 And give Him no rest until He establishes And makes Jerusalem a praise in the earth. Isa 62, 1- 7;

For your husband is your Maker, whose name is the LORD of hosts;.

Isa 54,4 "Fear not, for you will not be put to shame; And do not feel humiliated, for you will not be disgraced; But you will forget the shame of your youth, And the reproach of your widowhood you will remember no more. 54,5 "For your husband is your Maker, Whose name is the LORD of hosts; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel, Who is called the God of all the earth. 54.6 "For the LORD has called you, Like a wife forsaken and grieved in spirit, Even like a wife of one’s youth when she is rejected," Says your God. 54,7 "For a brief moment I forsook you, But with great compassion I will gather you. 54,8 "In an outburst of anger I hid My face from you for a moment, But with everlasting lovingkindness I will have compassion on you," Says the LORD your Redeemer. Isa 54, 4- 8;

You will surely put on all of them as jewels and bind them on as a bride.

Isa 49,14 But Zion said, "The LORD has forsaken me, And the Lord has forgotten me." 49,15 "Can a woman forget her nursing child And have no compassion on the son of her womb? Even these may forget, but I will not forget you. 49,16 "Behold, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands; Your walls are continually before Me. 49,17 "Your builders hurry; Your destroyers and devastators Will depart from you. 49,18 "Lift up your eyes and look around; All of them gather together, they come to you. As I live," declares the LORD, "You will surely put on all of them as jewels and bind them on as a bride. " Isa 49,14-18;


(See also Jer 2,1-5; Ezk 16; and Chapter 10: “The Millennium”).

But the fact that we as the congregation represent the wedding guests, and not the bride, can also be demonstrated on the basis of Scripture. In the parable of the wedding feast the Lord does not speak of the bride even once. He refers to the unworthiness of the Israelites to take part in the wedding as guests, and indicates that from now on it is the heathen who will be invited to the wedding.

And the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.

Mt 22,8 "Then he said to his slaves, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 22,9 ‘Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.’ 22,10 "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests. Mt 22, 8-10;


And even the apostles - the founding fathers of the congregation - are described by the Lord himself as wedding guests.

Your disciples do not fast. - The attendants of the bridegroom cannot.

Mt 9,14 Then the disciples of John came to Him, asking, "Why do we and the Pharisees fast, but Your disciples do not fast?" 9,15 And Jesus said to them, "The attendants of the bridegroom cannot mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them, can they? But the days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast. Mt 9,14-15;


In view of the circumstance that the second Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians can be dated to around 55 or 56 AD, and the Revelation of the Lord Jesus was written down some 40 years later, we actually cannot conclude today that Paul was “less enlightened on the subject of the Bride of Christ”, as you put it in your question quoted earlier. We can only point, in this connection, to those statements which the Bible passes on to us:

-  And here we must first note the fact that Paul himself regards his view on this matter as the interpretation of a mystery (cf. Eph 5,32). This means that it was in no sense a revelation.

-  And then we find too the promise of the Lord our God to Israel in Hos 2,19-20, “I will betroth you to me for ever”, as well as Isa 49,18 and Isa 62,4-5.5

-  And lastly we have the statements from Revelation that have already been quoted, where Our Lord Jesus Christ tells John of the 144,000 who have been purchased from the earth as the first fruits of the humanity for God and for the Lamb (Rev 14,3-5; 7,1-8).


So in the last resort every believing Christian must examine all the indications that are available to us in Scripture, and form a personal judgment as to which interpretation is correct.

We have to point out, however, that alongside the thoroughly modest and Scripture-oriented approach that is to be found in the present Discourse, we also encounter, all too frequently, an enthusiastic and idealistic view of the congregation as the Bride of Christ - as may be seen from the commentary “Ode to the congregation” at the end of this Discourse.


(Texts enclosed in a black frame are quoted from visitors to the site or other authors.)

(Jerusalem, the Bride of the Lamb / Reply FM 00, 2004-02-01)

Your interpretation of the 144,000 who were sealed as the Bride of the Lamb has something going for it, but all the same in the last resort it is disproved by what is stated in Revelation where it appears that the Bride of the Lamb is the Heavenly Jerusalem. If we look at Scripture with objective eyes, the irrefutable conclusion has to be drawn that the city of Jerusalem coming down from heaven, the Bride of the Lamb, must be the heavenly community of the saints, and so also the Christian congregation of all time (Rev 21,2.9-10.26-27).

Franz Murauer / f.murauer@gmx.net



Yes, you are right, these passages from Revelation have not yet been mentioned in this Discourse, and I am exceedingly grateful to you for pointing this out. So I would like to make up for the omission here. I too regard it as being of the highest importance that these scriptural passages should be analyzed with real objectivity, and will do my very best in this regard.

Let us first of all look at the passages referred to above, with the context in which they occur:

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 21,1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 21,2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev 21, 1- 2;

I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb. and he showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

Rev 21,9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." 21,10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. Rev 21, 9-10;

And they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it.

Rev 21,24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 21,25 In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed; 21,26 and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it; 21,27 and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life. Rev 21,24-27;


In the first passage (Rev 21,2), John in his vision sees the holy city of Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God. And the verse before tells us of the time of this event: the first heaven and the first earth have passed away, and John sees the new heaven and the new earth that God is going to create. And it is to this new earth that John sees the heavenly Jerusalem coming down. This is an important point, because we are able to recognize as a result that the time of these events is after the General Resurrection and the Universal Judgment, at the time of the entry of the just into eternity.

As we are told in Rev 21,8, at the Universal Judgment all the unjust will be condemned and will be cast into the lake of fire.

But for the cowardly and unbelieving their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

Rev 21,8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Rev 21,8;


We find a similar indication in the passage quoted above (Rev 21,27), where we are told that “nothing unclean (…) shall ever come into it but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life”. The important point here, if we are to understand this passage correctly, is the statement that nothing unclean can come into the city - only those can come into it whose names are written in the book of life.

This implies that they just are not in the city already, seeing that in Rev 21,2 we see it come down from heaven, adorned as a bride for her husband: they will only enter this city when it comes down to the new earth. But this also establishes the fact that it is not the just, and with them the congregation - who after all will only enter the city at this later point - who represent the heavenly Jerusalem and so also the Bride of the Lamb. In the interests of objectivity, and so as to subject this point of view to further examination, let us now look at a few other passages from Revelation.

In Rev 21,24 we are told: “The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it”. So here again the nations and the kings of the earth are not in the new Jerusalem as yet: rather, they are just on the point of entering it, and are bringing their glory to it. Or take Rev 21,26: “and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it”. The glory and the honor of the nations are being brought to Jerusalem - so they cannot already be within her.

But let us continue our examination of Revelation. In Rev 19,6-9 we also have a very illuminating passage:

The marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready. Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Rev 19,6 Then I heard something like the voice of a great multitude and like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying, "Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns. 19,7 "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready." 19,8 It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. 19,9 Then he said to me, "Write, ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.’" And he said to me, "These are true words of God." Rev 19, 6- 9;


This “great multitude” that is here seen rejoicing and praising God, because he has commenced his reign and because the marriage of the Lamb has come, may be seen - in parallel with Rev 7,9 - as the Christian congregation of all time. These people here mention that his bride has made herself ready. Now they can hardly be referring to themselves, surely - so we cannot take this as a reference to the congregation. On the contrary, the Bride of the Lamb is to be seen as distinct from the great multitude and from the congregation - and the latter rejoices that the bride has made herself ready.

This confirms, too, verse 9 of the present passage, where John is told: “Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” Just as in the parable of the wedding feast (Mt 22,10), where the congregation may be recognized in the wedding guests, and as in Mt 9,15, where the Lord actually describes the apostles as wedding guests, here too - in this statement in Rev 19,9 - it becomes plain that we, the congregation, are the fortunate ones who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb. So we are not the Bride! We are just the wedding guests. And as it is stated in Rev 19,8: “It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.” So our righteous deeds serve to prepare a garment for the Bride. And what an honor for us!

This context can also accommodate Paul’s statement, when he makes a comparison between Abraham’s descendants: the maid Hagar, on the one hand, who stands for the Israel of the present time, and on the other hand Sarah, the free woman, who stands for the followers of Jesus:

But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.

Gal 4,24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 4,25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 4,26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. Gal 4,24-26;


As Paul puts it here, then, we as the congregation do not stand for the Jerusalem above - rather, it is the Jerusalem above who is our mother and the bride of Our Lord. And finally the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews refers us back again to those chosen ones who in all probability are really to be seen as the bride of the Lamb:

You have come to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem and to the general assembly of the firstborn.

Hbr 12,22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 12,23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect. Hbr 12,22-23;


Here we are told that we have come to the city of the living God, to the heavenly Jerusalem and to the general assembly of the firstborn. And take note of the fact - we are not the firstborn, but we come, as Christian believers, into the heavenly Jerusalem in the New Creation, and so are permitted to enter the general assembly of the firstborn. And these firstborn, consequently, seem powerfully reminiscent of those “first fruits to God and to the Lamb” of which Rev 14,4 speaks, thereby indicating the 144,000 who were sealed from the twelve tribes of Israel.

These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.

Rev 14,3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth.
14,4 These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. 14,5 And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless. Rev 14, 3- 5;;


These 144,000 who have been sealed, 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel, are the representatives of the people of Israel in the sight of God, and are therefore predestined to be the beneficiaries of the promise of the Almighty to Israel in Hos 2,19-20.

I will betroth you to Me forever; Yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness.

Hos 2,19 "I will betroth you to Me forever; Yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness and in justice, In lovingkindness and in compassion, 2,20 And I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness. Then you will know the LORD. Hos 2,19-20;


It follows that we should rejoice and count ourselves blessed in view of the fact that we are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb, and can leave the honor of the Bride to those who have been chosen by God and the Lamb for this purpose.



(Texts enclosed in a black frame are quoted from visitors to the site or other authors.)

(Ode to the congregation / Reply AA 00, 2004-02-18)

the major leitmotif of my life at present is the congregation in accordance with god’s plan, and since i began to focus on jesus and since he became my hope and my salvation i have felt myself drawn to this congregation, which has been my goal since the beginning of my life, i think the congregation is actually the total content of life - it is the center of god’s actions, the terminus ad quem of all his longing to have any active involvement with us at all, the accomplishment of his will and the glorification of his son.

the congregation is the living body, the illustrated form of his action, the form of expression of his essence, the living reflection of his glory. she is more than it appears to us at the present moment.

she is a bride without spots or wrinkles, without any defects, blemishes or irrational quirks, she is the devoted bride for his devoted son, the inseparably joined unity of the body, she is holy as he himself is.

she is without fanaticism, without haste, without any kind of misrepresentation, without distortion, resting in him and just being, working through him, and confiding in him - the innermost glorification of love and fidelity.

she is invisible, as he also is invisible, this calls for belief on the evidence of his word, for she exists in his word and from his grace that he has given us. she is the place in which we live, if we have our life in and from him. in her we see him, she is his living counterpart, for her she died and rose from the dead. only in her eyes is he seen as that which he truly is. to the world he remains foolishness and useless - too little worth to make anyone commit to this path.

it was to her that all promises were meant to refer, in her he moves as the lord, she is his covering and his garment, and he her mighty stronghold and the firm object of her faith. we are only able to enter her through him, and she can only point in his direction. our devotion to him joins us to her, and our service to her links us with him.

their joint effect is one and it is directed to gaining this world, that is the object envisaged by their marriage and that is their endeavor in this world, for that it is to which the will of god tends, and she follows him with faithful devotion, as she lives from his will and does it. she is perfected in him.

it is the most glorious love story of all time, only it does not get lived out in practical terms, as there is a lack of devotion and trust. but the picture has been sketched out, and cannot any longer be changed. all his activity draws us into this relationship and all his promises reflect it. the mystery lies only in the entrance, for we can enter only through him, as he is the door and there is no other door by which anyone can enter this congregation - he has purchased her and paid the price and so he makes the decisions. anyone who has accepted his redeeming sacrifice enters here, but those who build on human sureties go off into a different space - they reach a kingdom, but his kingdom it is not.

the marriage bond with him is the bond of divorce from the entire world, that is the needle’s eye. perhaps your don’t understand what i am getting at, but for me this represents a preview of what is to come. just as a person may be looking out for a possible bride, may perhaps have an image in his heart of the way his bride looks and he finds his bride in the light of this image and shapes her to conform with it, and this is his vision of what his marriage will be, so god too has a picture of the bride whom he has chosen for his son and has made this picture a part of his son’s consciousness and through his consciousness part of ours - but the father will elect them wholly in accordance with this ancient and glorious pattern which we have lost, but which remains in god, because he is our lord and our patron.

a good patron is worth more than a good dose of stubbornness. the vision, the prophecy and the promise come alive for me when i can recognize their image in the congregation. the light at the end of the path that shines ahead of us must be discernible before my feet, otherwise it will not be able to lead me.

many people wander aimlessly without any light, and of course they don’t need a vision either, since after all they are not striving towards any kind of goal. but if we have recognized the light at the end of the path and are following this light, then of course there will be a tumult, because someone clearly thinks he has recognized a definite goal and he has to go through the process of trials and now it becomes increasingly apparent that others have also set off in pursuit of this goal and there are many paths through the tangled wood leading to the same goal, until more and more they come together and recognize that they are on the same path and the goal they are going towards is the same. and he, the lord, working from the goal draws all the threads together, fishes and hauls in his catch, and he draws his spotless bride out of the mire, just as a mother gives birth to a child in blood and mucus - as a child, not an assemblage of cells, but as a living being, as a person as a new human entity. so the child has been begotten and so it is born, bearing this promise of life.

he who shows himself will be recognized and gathered. the seed of the crystal begets the crystal. what shows itself awakens the joy of the assembly and of life.

i hope that you understand my words as they are in me, i am still learning how to express my meaning. the object of my longing is the assembly of those who have been made holy in christ and for this i can do no other than to show my inmost being in the hope that the lord will understand me and fulfill my longing if i show myself, because that is how it is promised in life and in his word. may he direct my path and show me how to relate to his word in a fitting manner and to remain wise in his love and to make myself understood, so that he may be recognized in my words which desire to serve him.

in much joy at having been gathered together in him and through him, i send you my best greetings and am delighted at the identity of this path which extends over centuries, so that every individual who trusts in god may be transformed into the identity of his son and in him find his or her final fulfillment.

Andre Aubert / andreaubertjc@hotmail.com



We may judge that this hymn to the congregation has great merit from the literary point of view, and we can also agree with many of the author’s opinions. All the same it appears that in this transport of feeling reality has been left somewhere behind. For various reasons - not the least of them being consideration for the author - it would not be appropriate here to go into the various statements he makes in detail. But if we are to attempt an evaluation of the overall impression he leaves with us, it has to be said that he reminds us, with fatal effect, of the praise of the “Queen of Heaven” and “Mother of God” that is rife in the Catholic church.

And in view of the effect this is likely to have on other brothers and sisters, however considerate we may wish to be, this is such an important matter that it just has to be addressed. It appears that many believers in the patriarchal Catholic system have the psychological need for a “supermother”, and in the Protestant and Evangelical churches this manifests itself as the longing for a “superbride” - in the form of the congregation. In endeavoring to satisfy this need, we find in some quarters that isolated biblical statements are used as the basis for the construction of a glorious fantasy creation, which is praised and reverenced and even - like the Catholic Mary - worshiped.

Now while it is safe to assume that in Evangelical circles we are unlikely to find in this “bride” an idol of the same order as Mary in the Catholic church, there is nonetheless a risk that such unbiblical and extravagant flights may raise expectations in the congregation which quite simply cannot be fulfilled. In the congregation of Jesus Christ we are all just human beings. In my experience there is no congregation - whether Evangelical or of any denomination whatsoever - where differences, confrontations and even feuds do not occur. And when Mr Aubert now waxes lyrical about the congregation:

“it is a bride without spots or wrinkles, without any defects, blemishes or irrational quirks, it is the devoted bride for his devoted son, it is the inseparably joined unity of the body, it is holy as he himself is...

it is without fanaticism, without haste, without any kind of misrepresentation, without distortion, resting in him and just being, working through him, and confiding in him - the innermost glorification of love and fidelity” -


he is speaking of an idealized figure that he has placed on a pedestal, and we can recognize very clearly the danger that this kind of “reverence” - not to say “worship” - entails. It is plain here too that we would, after all, only be reverencing or worshiping ourselves. That cannot be God’s will for us. This is an image of the congregation that does not agree with the real and actual congregation here on earth. And yet it is in this earthly and human congregation that we have to live and act.

Now although there is certainly much that is correct and important in what Mr Aubert says, we must point out, in the interests of realism, that the congregation of Jesus Christ on earth is not an idol, not a superterrestrial spiritual body: rather, it is a worldwide and earthly corporation, in which we are confronted with altogether down-to-earth problems, for which we must find - with the help of the Lord - down-to-earth solutions. And it is in the last resort those brothers and sisters in the various Christian congregations who are commissioned by the Lord to take on this arduous work - whether in a management role, in teaching, preaching, administration or for that matter in fervent intercession for their fellow Christians - who really deserve our thanks and appreciation. It is they whom we should praise and glorify in our prayers to the Lord, and pray that he may grant them strength and endurance.

In conclusion let us once again point out that in this very Discourse a demonstration based on Scripture has been supplied that it is not the congregation but Israel who in the Last Days will be the “bride”.

I will betroth you to Me forever; Yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness and in justice, In lovingkindness and in compassion.

Hos 2,16 "It will come about in that day," declares the LORD, "That you will call Me ĞIshiğ, my husband And will no longer call Me Baali. 2,17 "For I will remove the names of the Baals from her mouth, So that they will be mentioned by their names no more.

2,18 "In that day I will also make a covenant for them With the beasts of the field, The birds of the sky And the creeping things of the ground. And I will abolish the bow, the sword and war from the land, And will make them lie down in safety. 2,19 "I will betroth you to Me forever; Yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness and in justice, In lovingkindness and in compassion, 2,20 And I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness. Then you will know the LORD. Hos 2,16-20;


This promise made by God, this calling, which makes Israel the bride to whom he wishes to be betrothed forever and in righteousness, cannot be dismissed on the basis of any human arguments, nor will God himself ever retract it. God cannot repent of his calling. We are told this by Paul himself - the same Paul who interprets the congregation as a bride in 2Cor 11,2 - in his Epistle to the Romans:

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Rom 11,28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 11,29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Rom 11,28-29;


Not the people of God from among the nations, but that which comes from Israel is the bride to whom the Lord here says that he wishes to be betrothed to her forever, in righteousness and in justice, in lovingkindness and compassion and faithfulness. She will call him “my husband” and she will “know” him spiritually in the consummation of their marriage.

This promise of God remains true for all eternity. Anyone who casts doubt upon this is calling God himself in question - with all the consequences that must necessarily follow from that.