Discourse 82 – Is belief in the Trinity necessary for salvation?

Is the Trinity an unbiblical term?/ Comment, Dr. Monika von Sury 00 2005-11-05

Is belief in the Trinity necessary for salvation?/ Comment, Dr. Monika von Sury 01 2005-11-05

There is no salvation apart from the Trinity. / Book Charles H. Spurgeon 00, page 77

The biblical Trinity and some other specifics of the biblical Christian faith.

The denial of the Trinity, the false Catholic Trinity and the true biblical Trinity.   -   Discourse 107

Is the Trinity only an activity of God in three persons?   -   Discourse 1072

(Texts in a black frame are quotations from visitors to this site or from other authors.)

Yes indeed, and as you will certainly have seen, I also brought in 1Jn 5,20 as an argument at the end of Discourse 263. Your confession of faith above – that "Jesus Christ is God, and has come as the Son of God in the flesh" - proves you to be a truly believing Christian. All the same, the Anti-Trinitarians and Christadelphians will then claim, on the basis of your statement, that you believe in two Gods. Critics will refer to Deut 4,35 as a basis for taxing you with polytheism, claiming that you believe in more than one God, and so stigmatize your faith as unbiblical.

Deut 4,35 "To you it was shown that you might know that the LORD, He is God; there is no other besides Him. Deut 4,35;

Some Christians are influenced by these considerations, and so give these sects a hearing. So we must offer the brethren a way of countering these charges. And here the Trinity, as the Bible shows us, is the correct answer. By contrast with the Trinitarian doctrine of the Catholic church, however, the Biblical Trinity finds support in the Bible alone, not in any kind of worldly creed. In Discourse 26 I have endeavored to provide a scripturally grounded demonstration of the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but I imagine you have not found the time to read this essay.

(See also Discourse 107: "The denial of the Trinity, the false Catholic Trinity and the true biblical Trinity")

(See also Discourse 26: "The Trinity: an unbiblical concept?")

But you must certainly have seen from your reading of Discourse 263 (the third part of Discourse 26) what hair-raising verbal distortions the opponents of Trinitarian belief resort to in support of their point of view. Here, as the proverb has it, they beat the sack when they mean to hit the donkey. And the Trinity is not the thing that really sticks in their throat! As will be seen if you look at the first two parts (Discourses 26 and 262), it is simply and solely the divinity of Jesus Christ that proves to be a stumbling block for the Anti-Trinitarians.

(See also Discourse 263 : "The Trinity: an unbiblical concept?" – part 3)

(Texts in a black frame are quotations from visitors to this site or from other authors.)

Well, actually I do not see any acrimony in this Discourse, but rather a committed disputation – similar to that I engaged in with John Waterfield in Discourse 78, on the subject of the doctrines of the Catholic church. I do always try to adapt my remarks to the tone of argument evidenced by the individual with whom I am in dialog. But this kind of estimate is of course also a question of the experience a person has had of this kind of discussion. Every individual is naturally going to see the matter in a different light. On the other hand it must be said that there would surely be less naive verbiage thrown around on this topic, if people were only clear on the question what denial of the truth of the Trinity is meant to achieve.

(See also Discourse 78: "The doctrine of the Catholic church and the Bible – a debate.")

An attentive reading of Discourse 263 will show that rejection of the Trinity is by that same token a denial of the divinity of Jesus Christ. And here we can testify to the divinity of the Lord to the best of our ability, but all the same the unbelievers, misbelievers and non-Christians – including the Anti-Trinitarians, Christadelphians, Jews, Moslems and so on – will see any abandonment of belief in the Trinity as confirming their view that either there is no God, or there is only one God, from which it follows that Jesus Christ cannot be divine. So it is not a matter here of "clarifying God’s internal economy". The important thing is rather to refute, on the basis of Scripture, the efforts of certain groups to see Jesus Christ as the "founder of a religion" – as a chosen vessel, admittedly, but in other respects as a quite normal human being. The central message of the doctrines of the Anti-Trinitarians and Christadelphians has been formulated by these groups, with great clarity, in the following single statement:

And it is important that we realize here that this humanization of the Son of God will presumably also be the successful ploy of the Antichrist as described in 2The 2,3-4. The Antichrist will claim that Jesus Christ was only a man, and that he himself is the true Son of God.

If another comes in his own name, you (the Israelites) will receive him.

Jn 5,43 "I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him. Jn 5,43;

False Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

Mk 13,22 for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect. 13,23 "But take heed; behold, I have told you everything in advance. Mk 13,22-23;

And as Rev Off 13,3-4 also tells us, he will call for worship to be paid to Satan and to himself, and will even mimic the resurrection of Christ by the "resuscitation" of one of his heads after it has been slain.

The son of destruction who takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

2The 2,3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 2,4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 2The 2, 3- 4;

They worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast.

Rev 13,3 I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; 13,4 they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?" Rev 13, 3- 4;

(See also Chapter 01: "The 70^th week of seven years.")

As for the remark you go on to quote – "Well then, when we get to heaven we will see whether one, or two or three come to meet us!" – I came across it for the first time years ago. This point of view of the matter reflects that salvation egotism that we meet with occasionally, especially among older brothers and sisters. What matters for them is that they should themselves "get to heaven". The problems that other brethren may fall into, when they are led astray into error by false doctrines, concern them less. The very terminology used here – "whether one, or two or three come to meet us!" - clearly emanates from a completely aberrant conception of God, such as we are more accustomed to finding in the nominal Christians of the Catholic church. In such circles the Almighty is seen as the "Lord God" with a white beard, Peter as a doorkeeper at heaven’s gate and – most recently – Jesus Christ is presented as a buddy or pal.

And it is also unfortunate that Paul’s remark in 1Cor 13,12 – "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I shall know fully just as I also have been fully known" – is very frequently applied as an argument in this context. Misinterpretation of this Pauline passage gives people a quite elegant basis for shooting down any kind of biblical study, and thus preventing believers from extending their knowledge on the basis of Scripture and so coming to a more living form of faith.

Anyone who would like to get information from Scripture as to the actual situation we will find in heaven, when we arrive there, will be confronted with a very different scenario.

The twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him.

Rev 4,9 And when the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, to Him who lives forever and ever, 4,10 the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 4,11 "Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created." Rev 4, 9-11;

They fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God.

Rev 7,11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God. Rev 7,11;

And the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God.

Rev 19,4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sits on the throne saying, "Amen. Hallelujah!" Rev 19, 4;

As is plain from these passages, it is not the case here that "one, or two or three come to meet us" – on the contrary, it is we, when we come before the throne of God, who will fall on our faces and worship.

But as we find ourselves here at the place where it all happens, perhaps we can succeed in finding in the text of Revelation some statements referring to the other two persons of the Trinity, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit. At the beginning of the book we find the greetings of John to the seven churches, to which then the following messages were sent out. And already here John blesses these communities by invoking grace and peace from God, from the seven Spirits before his throne and from Jesus Christ.

Grace to you and peace, from the seven Spirits and from Jesus Christ.

Rev 1,4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 1,5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood- 1,6 and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father-to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. Rev 1, 4- 6;

These seven spirits before the throne of God are then seen by John in the following passage (Rev 4,5) as lamps of fire, and identified as the seven spirits of God. From this we can draw the conclusion, without any shadow of doubt, that what we are faced with here is the Holy Spirit of God, present in the form of seven lamps of fire before the throne of God – the number seven standing symbolically for the all-embracing universal presence of the Holy Spirit.

And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Rev 4,5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God; Rev 4, 5;

This universal presence of the Holy Spirit on earth is found again in Rev 5,6, where the Holy Spirit this time appears in the seven eyes of the slain Lamb. This slain Lamb of course represents the crucified Son of God; and the Lamb stands in the midst of the throne and the four living creatures. This shows us that the Holy Spirit has now passed from God to embrace the Son as well.

Seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth.

Rev 5,6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. Rev 5, 6;

So this is also the reason why the Lord was able to say, in Jn 15,26, that he will send us the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, from the Father.

The Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father. .

Jn 15,26 "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me. Jn 15,26;

So John here sees God on his throne, and in the midst of the throne Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, symbolized in the seven eyes of the Lamb. A more convincing scriptural demonstration of the unity of the three divine Persons – of the Trinity, that is – could hardly be devised.

Finally we must ask those brethren who deny the Trinity, and thereby – whether or not that is their intention – relativize the divinity of Jesus Christ, what they think the Lord can possibly have meant by his repeated indications based on the phrase "He who believes in me":

-  He who believes in Me will never thirst (Jn 6,35)

-  He who believes in Me, from his innermost being will flow rivers of living water (Jn 7,38)

-  He who believes in Me will live even if he dies (Jn 11,25)

-  He who believes in Me will never die (Jn 11,26)

-  He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me (Jn 12,44)

-  He who believes in Me will not remain in darkness. (Jn 12,46)

-  He who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also (Jn 14,12)

This belief in Our Lord is not just belief in his miracles, his promises, his sacrificial death on the cross, his Resurrection and his Ascension to the Father in heaven. All these things would have no kind of significance if Jesus Christ had not actually been God – if the Father had not been in him, had not come to us human beings to save us.

So to believe in Jesus Christ means believing that he came forth from the Father, that he came from God and returns to God and accordingly himself is GOD.

Because you have believed that I came forth from the Father.

Jn 16,26 "In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I will request of the Father on your behalf; 16,27 for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father. Jn 16,26-27;

And here we can see the fundamental difference that divides this faith from the approach of the Anti-Trinitarians. As Mr. Schneider confirms in Discourse 263, the Anti-Trinitarians do not believe that Jesus Christ is God:

"I absolutely do not deny that Jesus was the only begotten Son of God, that he proceeded from God, that he did the will of God at all times, that he was without sin and remained without sin, that he gave his life as an expiatory sacrifice for us, that God raised him up from the dead etc. … But I do deny the Trinitarian confessions of faith that were imposed by the soi-disant Christian councils of the church, which state that Jesus is himself God."

So the Anti-Trinitarians believe in everything else, they just do not believe that Jesus Christ is God. This is rather as if a person were to give his full consent to the terms of a contract, but should then refuse to append his signature. This means that the entire contract will fall into abeyance and will not be realized. While the Anti-Trinitarians reproach us orthodox Christians on the grounds that our views are unbiblical, they are actually the ones who subvert the scriptural texts and distort their meaning. So they deny that Jesus Christ is God, although this is expressly and indubitably confirmed in the Gospel of John, and in despite of the many scriptural passages that testify to the pre-existence of Jesus Christ with God and as God, through whom all things were created.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God .

Jn 1,1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 1,2 He was in the beginning with God. 1,3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 1,4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 1,5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. Jn 1, 1- 5;

A white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness and His name is called The Word of God..

Rev 19,11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 19,12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 19,13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. Rev 19,11-13;

The glory which I had with You before the world was.

Jn 17,5 "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.! Jn 17, 5;

For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth.

Col 1,15 He [Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 1,16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things have been created through Him and for Him. 1,17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. Col 1,15-17;

His Son, through whom also He made the world.

Hbr 1,1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 1,2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. Heb 1, 1- 2;

Moreover when the apostle Thomas addressed the Lord as "my God", the Son of God did not in any way correct him, but on the contrary confirmed the truth of his utterance, by saying "Because you have seen Me, have you believed?" And this gives us a testimony from the Lord himself that he is God in truth.

My Lord and my God!

Jn 20,28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" 20,29 Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed." Jn 20,28-29

Now it is true that the Trinity does not appear, as an explicit term, in the Bible. But it can be equally well derived from the scriptural passages quoted here, according to which the Son is in the Father and the Father is also in the Son. if then the Father and the Son are one, and the Son was just a man, then the Father must also be human. But if the Father is God – of which there can be no possible doubt – then the Son is also a part of God, and so himself God:

-  He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me (Jn 12,45)

-  I and the Father are one (Jn 10,30)

-  He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father (Jn 5,23)

-  The works that I do testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me. (Jn 5,36)

And if the Holy Spirit appears in the form of the seven eyes of the Lamb – of the Son of God, that is – as an incorporated aspect of the Lord Jesus, then these eyes are an integral component of the divine Lamb, which makes the Holy Spirit a component of the Son of God, who is God – so the Holy Spirit can also be identified as a part of God.

-  The Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name (Jn 14,26)

-  When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father (Jn 15,26)

-  Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts (Gal 4,6)

-  How much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him? (Lk 11,13)

Finally, we can also recognize in the Lord’s promise of the Holy Spirit the reality of the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I will ask the Father, and He will give you the Spirit of truth.

Jn 14,16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 14,17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. Jn 14,16-17;

And My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

Jn 14,23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 14,24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me. 14,25 "These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. 14,26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. Jn 14,23-26;

According to Jn 14,16.26, the Father will send the Holy Spirit in the name of the Son. And this divine support will be with us in our own spirit, and will teach us all things. But the statement also ensures us that, along with the Holy Spirit, the Father and the Son will come to us as well and abide with us. This supplies a proof that wherever the Spirit of God is active, the Trinity will also be present in the person of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Now it is certainly true, as mentioned earlier, that on the evidence of Scripture (both the Old and New Testaments) there is only one God.

That you might know that the LORD, He is God; there is no other besides Him.

Deut 4,35 "To you it was shown that you might know that the LORD, He is God; there is no other besides Him. Deut 4,35;

The LORD, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.

Deut 4,39 "Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that the LORD, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other. Deut 4,39;

The LORD our God is one LORD.

Mk 12, 29 Jesus answered, "The foremost is, "Hear, O Israel! The LORD our God is one LORD; Mk 12,29;

There is no God but one.

1Cor 8,4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one. 1Cor 8, 4;

This incontrovertible fact is likewise emphasized by the Lord Jesus on repeated occasions. He not only confirms that the Father is greater than all, he also says that the Father is greater than himself:

My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all.

Jn 10,29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 10,30 "I and the Father are one." Jn 10,29-30;

For the Father is greater than I.

Jn 14,28 "You heard that I said to you, "I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced because I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. Jn 14,28;

Now seeing that both the Son and the Holy Spirit are a part of God, and so are God, while according to Scripture there can only be one sole God, this leads us to the "Trinity in Unity and Unity in the Trinity", as also indicated by the Lord Jesus in his command to baptize the nations (Mt 28,19):

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them
in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

The above scriptural formulations

-  The Father, who sent me

-  The Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send

along with the biblical fact that both the Son of God and the Holy Spirit are parts of God acting in their own right, leave only two possibilities open to us: either three gods, or a Trinity. And since Scripture tells us that there is only one God, the Trinity is the only remaining option.

So that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.

Jn 10,36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, "You are blaspheming,’ because I said, "I am the Son of God’? 10,37 "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;10,38 but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father." Jn 10,36-38;

So if a person believes in Jesus Christ but does not believe in the Trinity, it follows that he must believe in at least two gods – which would violate the commandments of God in Deut 4,35 and 4,39 – or else he would have to deny the divinity of Jesus Christ, which would be equally false. And seeing that all the promises of Our Lord quoted earlier (in particular the promise, "He who believes in me will never die") will only be fulfilled for those who believe in him – who believe, that is to say, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and so is himself God – it follows that all those who deny the Trinity and so also deny the divinity of the Lord cannot be saved, as their faith has no foundation.

Dr. von Sury refers to Acts 4,12 in her comments quoted above:

"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

- and this is of course completely correct. The essential point, however, is that this name, that of Jesus Christ, is not just the name of a human being, but the name of the Son of God who is himself God. Anyone who, like the Anti-Trinitarians, believes that he can be saved by a human being, will be disappointed of his hope when he dies, if not before.

(Texts in a black frame are quotations from visitors to this site or from other authors.)

The biblical Trinity and some other specifics of the biblical Christian faith.

The denial of the Trinity, the false Catholic Trinity and the true biblical Trinity.   -   Discourse 107

Is the Trinity only an activity of God in three persons?    -   Discourse 1072 – Part 2